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 Sub-breeders Support 
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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:34 am
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Location: Somewhere in Colorado, USA
Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Oh! My! Goodness! Whoever came up with this? I WUV YOU! :w00t: (FriendsOnly?) Put me on the list! Anything I can do to help! I found some of the fakes (hearts and bikini) and put them on a farm with a message about fakes... I planned on making an entire farm created just for that purpose. By the way, I didn't "buy" them, they were free, but I thought I would describe to people how to research bloodlines, and tell which Subs actually have REAL ones out there and which ones do not have any. :roll: I have not got this going on my farms yet, but that is the goal. Please put me on the list, of course, and I guess I should find out how to join... grrr... I just got so excited when I saw it I had to post! :oops: ~Joy... aka mom'sfarm

SparkleBug wrote:
They are ill informed. Vampire/suspender cubs are not, nor will they ever be, sub breeds."


I would like to address the issue of the VAMPIRE/SUSPENDER FuzCubs. It has been brought up several times, I see, and never really made clear. I first and foremost want to clarify and acknowledge that the Suspender FuzCubs ARE indeed a TRUE Sub~Breed on the MSL and were created by lulacs: http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/308055

I am the guilty Creator of the Vampires: http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/609577 :oops: I say guilty only because I continued to work on them even when lukacs was accepted to the MSL for the Suspenders. In my defense, she had her Suspenders added to the list when I almost had the Vampires completed. There were enough differences in the breeds, aside from the pattern, that I simply didn't want to scrap all of my hard work. And please note that I never intended to try to get the Vampires on the MSL because I developed them from using the original Sub~Breed of EyeBrow FuzCubs.

That all being said, I have NEVER claimed the Vampires as a Sub~Breed, I called them a Generation Creature for lack of a better label. In fact, I have never displayed them on any account that I didn't point out that they were NOT a Sub~Breed and could never be one. I have always also pointed out that they are NOT Suspenders, and are in no way related to them. I always acknowledge lukacs as the creator of the Sub~Breed Suspender FuzCubs for that simple fact that they are not related, SHE is the Sub~Breeder of the original design, and to keep HER name active in association with that design and her creation.

I made the mistake of selling (cheaply) about 15 pairs of the Vampires to who I thought were reputable Farmers. That being said, I also knew they would probably sell them eventually and the work I had done to acknowledge lukacs would become lost in the frenzy. This happened at the time the Twilight movies hit big and I caved to pressure from a few Friend Farmers to sell. I quit when I saw what a feeding frenzy it became and that some were trying to breed them to recreate the fur color of the Suspenders which set the Breeds completely apart, and have not sold another one. I did gift wolfblazer a pair later, but I knew she only wanted them because they are beautiful, and not for the crazy fad they turned into.

I have fought Sub~Breed Fraud with every ounce of my strength, sometimes to the detriment to my health. Psalm 9 is a personal friend and my heart simply broke for her over the betrayal she encountered with her Eternity FuzCubs. For informational purposes for anyone who wants to know, as far as I know without doing research on most of them out there, there are NO full blooded original Eternity FuzCubs off of the farms of her most trusted friends. That means that any that are for sale out there are probably corrupted and are NO LONGER the original Sub~Breed. I know this because the fiasco was started when ONE genuine Eternity FC was entrusted to the wrong "friend". I am unaware of any of her true friends breeding and giving or selling even one of the pairs that could have resulted in any TRUE Eternity being on the market at all. Also, unless a new trusted "friend" has become a traitor since I have been gone, psalm9 became fanatically careful with the Trinity FuzCub Sub~Breed and only a few trusted friends have them. Any breed that resembles them, or the Eternity, I would bet are a complete fake aside from the few of us who know who we are, and were gifted with her original Sub~Breed. I would be happy to check into that to prove it or perhaps weed out who the "traitor" would have been, if that even happened. I really don't believe that it did- we knew back then who the traitor was :devil: .

I agree with Barb that the issue of putting your Sub Creation "out there" or not is a personal one. I absolutely love to display my fellow Sub~Breeders' creations along with my own Subs on my Sub accounts, and so very much support those like Barb who share their hard work with the CB world! :D Hey Barb, I missed out on your Necklace Tots and would be proud to have them; hint, hint :lol: I am PROUD to acknowledge those Sub~Breeders, and many of them I call friends, in the banners and in any messages about their Sub~Breeds. I even have a few Subs displayed that were given to me by original Creators that have not come back to the game in many years. I helped one to recover her Sub~Breed when she no longer had them for herself (wowee :lol: ) Note: Barb, if I have any Subs you need pictures or information on, I will proudly give that information and Potion any at my own expense; I will GUARANTEE on my word and honor that I don't have any fakes in their bloodlines. Also, I'm pretty sure the Sub~Breed Pear Drops by A~Zmeadows is not on the list anymore... did they get removed? :? I have offspring of those ORIGINALS given to me by her when they first made the list if you want that info...

On a personal note about my own Sub~Breeds, I simply did not want my own creations out there, and I acknowledge that it made them more of a target perhaps. I did not do that to be selfish, I did give some to some very close personal friends to display, and I was fortunate to trust the right people with them. I simply did not wish to see them experimented on further by other farmers as Barb enjoys, mainly because I continue to experiment with the Breeds like that myself! :lol: I still don't want them out there, though I have thought of releasing one of my future Bug Subs if I ever get them completed :roll: . My daughter BREEDER~ALEXA (albino~farmer) kept here Arrow Tots to herself- even I was not given the honor of having one to display. I respected that; there was already some controversy and ugliness (most untrue) concerning her Sub~Breed at the time they were accepted, and that made a huge impact on her decision to keep the breed only on her farms.

I only wish for the goals to be that no one be allowed to get away with claiming that they have a genuine Sub~Breed when they do NOT, whether they sell them, breed them, or not. That all who have a genuine Sub~Breed PLEASE acknowledge the Sub~Breed Creator's name in their banners and bookmark their farms so visitors can easily find them. That all Farmers learn to research bloodlines themselves, and if they have FAKES, to release them to the wild, don't breed or sell them, and list the people who sold the fakes to them in their banner. If there are creatures that are similar to, but have differences, please acknowledge on the banners that they are NOT a Sub~Breed, and maybe even acknowledge the Sub~Breed that they are similar to, along with the Sub~Breed Creator. I am sure that there are other things I'm not thinking of right now, but this subject stream pretty much covers a lot! Again, thanks FriendsOnly! I wish we had had this army of supporters back when! I have missed the battles for Sub~Breeds! It's GREAT to be back! :lol: Oh, and Tracy... you can see that I am BACK! :silly: :silly:

~ mom'sfarm (Joy)

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Thu May 17, 2012 2:18 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Hello fellow Anti-Subbreeders, you guys may know me as CandyDesign now, but I used to be CandySlap, CandyWhack, and Jefferson49 (My more "popular" accounts). I am currently working on reowning the famous "Volcano" subbreed. http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/1943109 <--- Link to my account I am working on for them. I found 4 of them on my older accounts, and used a youth potion. Now, I have managed to change them from the original black skinned (Dark Dragon Scuttlebug) to a darker green. This has been a secret project, and I have been working on it for around 3 years. Yes, I know it's bad that I'm just now announcing it, but it's because I am just now playing again. Once again, the black skinned ones (named FAILvolc) I am breeding only those two mates together, trying to see if I get a dark greened outcome like my other two volcs. If this is against sub-breed rules, or a disgrace, or breaking the rules of selling/breeding/owning false sub-breeds, please let me know ASAP. Once again, these are from YEARS ago, when they were in the making, and now hardly any of them are owned, as most have been sent to the wild. I have started from scratch from my old account (Jefferson49) where I have been working on them. I remembered about them, which made me join again, and therefore brought my attention back to this thread. Please tell me if the dark greened could be legit, after I finish "perfecting" them, and breeding the "perfected" 20 generations. Thanks so much, and please reply ASAP!


---
CandyDesign

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You may know me as CandySlap, CandyDesign, CandyEggs, CandyWhack, Jefferson49, Jefferson40, Jefferson46, Jefferson41, Jefferson42, CandyFrogsMale, CandyFrogsFemale, CandyBugMale, CandyBugFemale, CandyTotMale, CandyTotFemale, CandyBeakMale, CandyBeakFemale, CandyBearMale, CandyBearFemale, CandyFuzzMale, CandyFuzzFemale, CandyChimpMale, CandyChimpFemale, Candybreed and Hinuto... Lot's of accounts, right? Well, I gotta hide my super secret sub-breeds! Also I have an overstock of animals...

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Mon May 21, 2012 7:14 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
CandySlap, I am sure a Mod or Admin will get to this, but just for informational purposes, the Volcano/Napberry Bugs were never a Sub~Breed and were created by DustyAmy. They are simply a Generation Bug and are very beautiful. I too have bred and experimented with them in the past (I never sell). http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view?id=622528 I don't really know if it would be a good idea to try to create a Sub~Breed using their lineage if yours are from the original breed, that one would definitely be a call for the MSL powers that be, but I personally would not. I had planned on playing around with their shells and seeing what could come of them, but then again, I was a friend of Always Needs a Nap's (whom Amy left in charge of them) and she knew that I played with them but never meant to sell/submit/etc. my work on them. I don't know how either of them would feel about it, truthfully.

Again, I'm pretty sure when a Mod or Admin reads this thread again, they will be able to better address this, but I thought I'd give you what information I had and my own take on what I would do :wink2:

~mom'sfarm

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Tue May 22, 2012 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Alright, thank you. This breed is not actually from the original "Volano" or "Napberry" breed, it was from me and my old old old friend (Blackl9ke, who doesn't play anymore). She was a dear friend to the creator of the "Volcano/Napberry" bugs, when it was just a mere idea. We started our own, and although the Napberry and my Volcano bugs looks alike, my skin is a darker green, and not quite perfect yet, as I am trying to get them a little bit different. The reason that I believe this is a huge difference is because when I was on a vacation in Hawaii, I picked up some ash in my hand. and rubbed it around. Instead of it looking like the volcano (black) it made my hand look like a little bit darker than throw-up green, which is the color I am going for. Once again, I'm not saying it should be on the MSL, but I'm jsut trying to perfect them, and wondering if it is possible.

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You may know me as CandySlap, CandyDesign, CandyEggs, CandyWhack, Jefferson49, Jefferson40, Jefferson46, Jefferson41, Jefferson42, CandyFrogsMale, CandyFrogsFemale, CandyBugMale, CandyBugFemale, CandyTotMale, CandyTotFemale, CandyBeakMale, CandyBeakFemale, CandyBearMale, CandyBearFemale, CandyFuzzMale, CandyFuzzFemale, CandyChimpMale, CandyChimpFemale, Candybreed and Hinuto... Lot's of accounts, right? Well, I gotta hide my super secret sub-breeds! Also I have an overstock of animals...

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Tue May 22, 2012 4:14 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
CandySlap wrote:
Alright, thank you. This breed is not actually from the original "Volano" or "Napberry" breed, it was from me and my old old old friend (Blackl9ke, who doesn't play anymore). She was a dear friend to the creator of the "Volcano/Napberry" bugs, when it was just a mere idea. We started our own, and although the Napberry and my Volcano bugs looks alike, my skin is a darker green, and not quite perfect yet, as I am trying to get them a little bit different. The reason that I believe this is a huge difference is because when I was on a vacation in Hawaii, I picked up some ash in my hand. and rubbed it around. Instead of it looking like the volcano (black) it made my hand look like a little bit darker than throw-up green, which is the color I am going for. Once again, I'm not saying it should be on the MSL, but I'm jsut trying to perfect them, and wondering if it is possible.


All of your bugs there except for your test bug originate from the original Volcano/Napberry Generation Bug~ whose skin is dark blue, not green. :ermm: There was a breach of bloodline 3 years 3 months ago, which tainted the original bloodline, but those bugs did not look like the original until they were re~bred back into the original line. I never found your original store bugs. :dizzy: That could just be because doing an extensive research check could take days or longer. Do you happen to have a link to where yours and your friend's bugs came in? Or maybe could you have mistaken the bugs you "Potion"~ed for your originals that you had? (HeHeHe, that has actually happened to me before! :blush2: ) In any case, the Creator of the Napberry Bug was Dusty Amy, who could not complete the breed before she left the game, and 5 years 6 months ago she gave them to my friend Always Needs A Nap, and she completed the breed to what everyone knew as the Napberry. Several years ago an unknown farmer started calling them Volcano Bugs, and so now they are often called that more commonly. The original breed was the creation of Dusty Amy and Always Needs a Nap. They could not be considered for the MSL because of their similarity to an already existing Sub~Breed (Erebos, I think, but I haven't looked at any of them in a very long time :roll: The Dark Dragons by my friend wolfblazer were somewhat similar also, but her base shell was deep purple, I think).

I don't know who told you that they created the original, but my information is accurate. Also, please don't feel that I am faulting you for experimenting. I am not. I have also played with the breed, but release them to wild. It is so fun to see what else you can get from an existing creature. The Volcano/Napberry Breed has been out there for many, many years and I'm sure there are many a Generation creature or individuals out there that carry this beautiful bug's bloodline. :P In any case good luck getting the results that you desire. I managed to get a very deep green on my Sub~Breed, the RoseBud Envy ScuttleBugs, and have since bred many different shells for them: http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view?id=735420 It is hard to tell from the oldies, but their skin really is very dark green. :pinch: I really need to get those farms back up with breeders :whistle: .

And on a final note, I only gave the "Sub~Breed" speech to you because you commented on this particular thread, which is dedicated to stop Sub~Breed Fraud, and calling any creature a Sub when it is not one is just one of the things that farmers commonly do that is wrong. I meant no offense, nor did I mean to lecture :lol: I am always guilty of "rambling" a little much, and I am also misunderstood at times. :mrgreen: So, if there were any discipline lectures to give, it is not my place, I only want to inform, educate, and help where I can, and I hope you have fun with your buggies :tongue:
~mom'sfarm

P.S.~ That is a pretty cool story about how you got the color from the Volcanic Sand in Hawaii! It is fascinating what we can apply from real life to this game isn't it? It will make a great story for your banner that you will keep them on when they're done! :mrgreen:

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Tue May 22, 2012 6:32 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
hadleyelizabeth wrote:
Oh, my GOSH!!!
There is a person on CB that is going to recreate Lightning Cubs! http://creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/1870896
fire~blast wrote:
how are people going to recreate lightning cubs?
they can try but it'll take them way to long :blink:
hadleyelizabeth wrote:
They will recreate Lightning Cubs the way they were originally created.
fire~blast wrote:
really? 0.0
cool :D


Just wanted to address this, because I am the original creator of Lightning Cubs. I don't know who that person is that was going to attempt to recreate them. To my knowledge, no 'fakes' were ever made. I never allowed anyone to have a Lightning Cub, I had always kept them to myself.

However, I would like to make it known that after being away for more than 2 years, I have returned to the game. For how long, I'm not sure. But I have continued the Lightning Cubs breeding line (thanks to youth potions :mrgreen:) and I am offering the babies now at a very affordable price (only 50fb's) to anyone who would like them. I've already sold around 20 breeding pairs.

I'm sure some people will breed their own variations of them, and that's ok. Hopefully no one will try to re-sale them for a large amount of fb's. That's why I'm selling them for only 50 each. I want them to be enjoyed throughout CB, but I also hope to maintain recognition for being their creator.

So if you want a pair of genuine Lightning Cubs straight from me, you are welcome to follow the link in my signature :wink2: Thanks!

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Thu May 31, 2012 12:02 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Hi, I would like to support but first I would like to say a couple things:

I have played CB on and off for a good 4-5 years, and yet I have been very oblivious to how much of a problem it is about Sub Breed Fraud, and how I had been just selling "Sub Breeds" without even realizing they may not be the real thing.

Just recently, when I decided I was going to make my own sub breed, I began reading and learning, and I even made a friend (mom'sfarmSUBS) who told me (in the nicest way possible) that my farms had many violations, and that the creatures I was selling were mostly fake, and that copies were hurtful to creators of the originals.

I have gotten in trouble a couple of times by making stupid and hurtful mistakes such as misnaming heart tots valentine tots, and calling a generation breed a real sub breed. I am not going to try to lie at all; I loved to sell them. They are all so beautiful. And of course, when I saw one that someone said was the sub breed (when in reality it was a fake) I was unaware and bought them, bred them, and sold them for decent prices.

Let me say this right now to every single creator of sub breeds who I may have hurt through my actions:
I am SO sorry. And I mean that from the very bottom of my heart. And thanks to mom'sfarmSUBS, who took her time to explain it to me very thuroughly, everything that I was doing wrong, and even helping me fix it, I hope to start fresh and CORRECTLY this time. :blush2:


Right now I am going through the extensive process of ridding my farms of fake creatures and their copies. You can feel free to take a look at my efforts here:
http://creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/951060
It is still very much a work in progress, and I understand if I am not accepted into this support sub breeds list yet, because I still have creatures on there that are fake and copied. Be patient with me, I am new to checking bloodlines and it is taking a really long time! :wink2:

I can't say sorry enough, and I truly hope you consider me when I have fully undergome this change for the better! Feel free to tell me if there is anything else I must do in order to be in the right and accepted onto this list! I hope everyone will forgive me :cry: I support Sub Breeds!


Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:28 am
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
I also forgot to say that while I have a couple accounts, ones that may even have sub breeds or copies (like I said, i sold them a lot), I only use my two accounts ilovemindy http://creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/951060 and Pick-a-Pet http://creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/1704183

I don't know if there is any way to delete my other accounts, or if I need to get rid of the sub breed fakes/copies before I should be considered for this list or not. Please tell me anything I need to do, I only truly want to become a good CB player. Thank you, and I hope you will consider me, and possibly even help me with this process! :)


Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:40 am
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Mindy, first I want to say that it took a lot of courage to admit to everyone what you have done in the past and more recently. Probably more Mods/Admins and a few Sub~Breeders knew of you than regular Farmers, but posting it here makes it very public to most of CB. I never knew of your breach of trust because I have been gone for quite a while and have not gathered recent information from friends and associates as I need to do, so I came to you with a clean slate, no biases to cloud what I had to share with you.

Because of this, I too have learned a valuable lesson. Remember I told you that I didn't have the kind of "fight" in me to wage "war" on Sub~Breed Fraud anymore because of health issues? So, I decided my strategy would simply be to share information on my accounts and educate anyone willing to ask (you did). I know I don't have the strength to "hunt" those that are intentionally violating Sub~Breed rules anymore, nor the heart left to argue points, so I felt I could inform as many as possible and hope they shared that information with others. See, if every person shared with just one other Farmer... may take a lot of time, but may be effective long term.

Well, if you truly change the things that you have done wrong, keep your attitude change, and join us to inform and educate, then I succeeded much better and quicker with you by being kind, patient and informative, than I did by being pushy. Which I had been guilty of whenever I met with resistance in the past. I usually began nice enough, but usually left them no choice but to do things only my way... how I felt was the RIGHT way. :whistle:

I began to see things slightly different thanks to Barb and Blue and their opinions before I left the game a couple of years ago... especially Blue, who held nothing back to put me in my place a few times :lol: I didn't do anything "wrong" per se, but I had been very opinionated and rigid in what I felt was right or wrong, what should be against the rules, etc. I can still be pretty opinionated, but I have learned to listen a little better, choose my "battles" more wisely, and not let it get me into such a fit that it clouded my judgement at times. That's not to say I am not still capable of having a "snit" now and again, but I'm better than I was (those who know~ and love :kiss: ~ me can see that I am STILL a chatterbox!)

So, what I learned was that I can perhaps be more effective with patience and letting go what I can't change, than waging a full out attack. Farmers on CB have the power of choice as long as they do not violate the rules, and although that does not always mesh with my own view, it is okay to let go and move on. It is okay to not become so mad. And most importantly, from you I learned that even Farmers guilty in the past deserve a chance to change and switch sides. You may be able to reach more "guilty" Farmers than the rest of us because you used to be "one of them".

CB is a very large world, growing every day, and it will take a lot of people to inform and educate about this issue. It also needs to be said that not all opinions will be the same on this subject, and that it is okay to have your own. What needs to be done is spread knowledge. Who, What, When, Where, Why, How... We can't change it all, but we can get more knowledge out there, and it is the LACK of knowledge that may be the biggest problem of all. Because so many Farmers just don't know anything, therefore opportunists can take advantage. Farmers tend to learn much more from other Farmers and their friends than they ever do by reading the rules and regulations concerning both Sub~Breeds, or simply the rules of Creature Breeder. So word of mouth among each other is KEY.

I will continue to work with you to sort out what you have, what you don't, and how you can inform your customers and friends. I gave you a lot to think about, a lot to change, and I'm hopeful that you will turn things around. There will be those that will have no faith in you because of your past. The only thing that you can do about that is to keep moving forward with the changes we discussed, and KEEP at it. Time will show all, one way or another. We all know that, right? You are taking the first steps and that is all you, or anyone else who may have been a violator, can do to start on the road to stopping the hurt and damage caused by Sub~Breed Fraud.

Since you know better what you have, let me know what you want me to do to help. Feel free to ask questions and I'll help how I can. Also, remember that I said that there are a lot of genuine Subs and Generation Breeds to be had, it just takes knowledge and patience to find them. Then you can be on your way to having authentic Breeds, and you will be better informed so you can help others, too. Keeping the Sub~Breeder's names attached to their creations, and stopping the breeding and/or selling of fakes is the goal of giving information. So, the hard work begins, and I, a Sub~Breeder, will wish you luck and I will have faith in you unless you let me down, okay? :mrgreen:

~mom'sfarm

P.S.~ Mindy, you should do a search and find out where to request your other accounts to be deleted. I read something recently, but don't remember where. Still, it is doubtful any action would be taken by mentioning it on this thread because they will not be looking for it here. If for some reason your search turns up nothing, PM Tracy and maybe she will help (just be sure to search FIRST :wink2: )


Edit: About the selling or having creatures and if you can be on this Support Group:
The way I am understanding it, having and selling any creature that is a fake of a Sub~Breed is a big no~no. But I think the biggest violations come from not being honest about what you are selling. For example, like I told you, there are NO genuine Eternity for sale/breed/etc., therefore calling yours "Eternity" is a violation. Calling them a Sub is too. I'm not absolutely positive because I have not had the chance to touch base with anyone yet, but selling/breeding Generation Breeds may not be the violation, but what you call them could be. But note what I told you before: if you are selling/breeding "Circle Fuz" or "Bikini Tots", etc. it is terribly hurtful to the true Sub~Breed Creator, they get no credit, and their glory is forever tarnished. There is more, but that is a start. I think that selling and breeding them is not a violation of the CB rules, but it probably will keep you off of this Support Group and will alienate you from many Sub~Breeders. Again, some of this comes down to the opinions. :unsure:

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
WARNING: My reply has absolutely nothing to do with Sub-breeders Support.

mom'sfarm wrote:
P.S.~ Mindy, you should do a search and find out where to request your other accounts to be deleted. I read something recently, but don't remember where. Still, it is doubtful any action would be taken by mentioning it on this thread because they will not be looking for it here. If for some reason your search turns up nothing, PM Tracy and maybe she will help (just be sure to search FIRST :wink2: )

Actually, you really shouldn't PM a moderator if you don't know/can't find the answer to question after searching. The user should create a new topic asking the question and wait for a reply. That way their question can be answered quicker and the answer is now 'out there' for others. :wink:

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:48 pm
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 Re: Sub-breeders Support
Excellent point Fally! Now don't I feel silly after all of that "get the information out there" spiel? :ermm: That was pretty silly advice. My apologies, Mindy.

I hope that we will soon see a rise in interest here for Sub~Breed Support! Spread the word!

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Yes, if you look at my farm, I actually no longer have the fake eternities, the heart tots, or the up tots. And the rest of the creatures I have I am not done researching yet. I am not going to sell those ^ breeds anymore because I now understand that they are wrong. So I am making the first steps to being a good CB player, and the only help I can ask for you are already giving me; Help in checking my sub breeds purity, AND being a friend :) Those are honestly the only things I need to succeed, and I plan on pressing on. I just don't clearly understand how to check the bloodlines all the way, which makes me feel bad because you've already done two of them! The quads I tried and as far as I saw it looked like they were the real deal. The strawberries looked fake. The only thing is I don't trust myself on the checking of bloodlines! :| but anyways, thank you for being patient with me and I can honestly say this: I have been yelled at before, and when people yelled at me (of course I understand why they were mad now) I didn't want to listen to them and got mad as well. Which is why when you came to me and I noticed your farms so clearly talked about how your Sub Breeds were "pure" I was like, huh? And that is why I asked you questions. And you were patient with me and didnt push or yell. You just clearly and nicely said I had violations and if I wanted to change them, you would help me. You were so inviting. I think that was all I needed. :) Thank you mom'sfarm :) And thank you for helping me. I hope others will eventually see the change in me and forgive me for my actions (honestly, alot of it was just that I was uneducated, just lke you said.) Anyways, so SHOULD I delete the farms I am no longer using, simply because they have fakes and whatnot? Because I am no longer going to use them so I don't care if I delete them or not, it would just be another thing on my list. Thanks :)


Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:04 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
mom'sfarm wrote:
For example, like I told you, there are NO genuine Eternity for sale/breed/etc., therefore calling yours "Eternity" is a violation. Calling them a Sub is too.

You might be interested to know that the eternities out there are from sub breed eternity bloodlines. Their creator gave some away to a "trusted" member who sold them (much to their disappointment). They did not want them public.... but they are, in fact, real. Some have had new blood brought into them for color & some size changes, but they all track back to the original sub breed & many sold today are even 100% pure. That doesn't make it "right" to sell them according to this threads stance, but they are not fakes never the less.

ilovemindy, I think you are being too hard on yourself. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't foresee anyone shunning you over it :)

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Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:21 pm
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
SparkleBug wrote:
mom'sfarm wrote:
For example, like I told you, there are NO genuine Eternity for sale/breed/etc., therefore calling yours "Eternity" is a violation. Calling them a Sub is too.

You might be interested to know that the eternities out there are from sub breed eternity bloodlines. Their creator gave some away to a "trusted" member who sold them (much to their disappointment). They did not want them public.... but they are, in fact, real.

Hi Barb! Long time, no "talk"! Wow, I've missed this place! :mrgreen:

I just wanted to make clear a few of my statements, because if you misunderstood, then I really can't expect any one else to understand what I meant :pinch:

First thing: There is absolutely no doubt that the Fake Eternity out there have Sub~Breed Eternity Bloodlines. You had no way of knowing that I explained as much, among other things, to Mindy in other messages not on the forum threads. I was among an army of Farmers and Mods/Admins who tried to get that ONE Eternity FuzCub and the "tainted" eggs that were bred from that one Eternity and a Non~Eternity from that "trusted friend". I think that Psalm9 didn't fully trust that person and that is why she only gave them one Eternity. I don't think that she dreamed that they would do what they did... But that is another story :whistle: Therefore, I know where they originate from. Every Fake Eternity I have researched (and there are TONS), traced back to that Eternity and that breach. If there is another line, I have not found one that does not trace to it. I would love to hear from anyone who has found a pure line that has not been breached by anything other than pure Eternity, and I will stand corrected. I knew most everyone who received breeding pairs and I simply won't believe that they betrayed her trust unless I see it. I would love to trace them back to find out who would have done that. Naive? Perhaps. But those of us left in the aftermath of that mess truly loved Psalm9, who was a very beautiful person in REAL life, and we were all stunned and heartbroken over how much she was hurt by it all. I never want to see another person hurt like that. Only Pixels? She was pure feeling, and I ached for her; still do. :cry: The Trinity and Eternity had very deep and spiritual meaning to her. She wanted to share and be generous and kind. What a tragic lesson for "just a game". So, the Eternity launched this debate of Sub~Breed fakes and frauds into the stratosphere. If anyone negates the feelings and human aspect behind this game, I say that that is a tragedy. That is, of course, my opinion, but it is also why this particular thread even exists.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that if someone other than the Sub creator breached the bloodline, then the resulting offspring were no longer considered that Sub~Breed, and therefore fakes. Also, that representing a creature as a Sub~Breed and/or using a Sub~Breed's name, is a direct violation of the rules. I explained to Mindy that there were two ways a creature can be faked. Breaching the bloodline, as explained above, or re~creating a same/similar creature with unrelated bloodlines. So this is where I was coming from by making the statements about the fakes. Those bloodlines- Mindy's in particular for this discussion- resulted from that line and I was using information I believe is true to claim them fakes.


SparkleBug wrote:
Some have had new blood brought into them for color & some size changes, but they all track back to the original sub breed & many sold today are even 100% pure. That doesn't make it "right" to sell them according to this threads stance, but they are not fakes never the less.


I am not exactly clear if you meant the Eternity specifically, or Sub~Breeds in general with this. I know for a fact that there are many Sub~Breeds that are Pure and perfect out there for sale/breeding/etc. Hence our tracing all of her creature's bloodlines to root out the fakes, and to search out pure breeds for her to display/sell/etc. Again, the issue to sell, is to each his/her own. But I don't think this thread holds selling Subs that have been given/sold for that purpose by the Creators, against anyone. Right? I find nothing wrong with that at all, personally. I simply have chosen not to do that with my own lines because in most all instances I have given my word to the Creators to never do it.

As to the changes in Pure Breed Eternity:
Some people (Blue :lol: ) may remember many years ago that I complained about creatures coming out of my Cryo~Pods that were turning up with oddities. I had established creatures- including Sub~Breeds, that had not thrown an imperfect offspring (other than the occasional albino) in many generations. The imperfections were slight changes in ear, eye, or body size, and changes in colors of spots, fur or shell colors, or eye color. Basically the breed stayed true to patterns, but other things would be "off". From these creatures in the Eternity, Psalm9, myself, Cobree, and IMB03 worked on Psalm9's Eternity and Trinity. From those creatures we developed Ruby~Eternity, Lil' Pink~Eternity, Peach~Eternity, and Sweet~Eternity, along with a variety of different Trinity. This link takes you to Psalm9's account where she keeps most of the different Eternity we worked on:
http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view?id=611524
And the Eternity and Trinity variations can also be found on my FUZSUB account:
http://www.creaturebreeder.com/farm/view/702997
If you trace their lines I am sure you will not find that we used Non~Eternity FuzCubs to develop these Breeds. So in effect, these ARE Pure Eternity, as NO Non~Eternity FuzCubs were used in their development. That being said, I don't know of another Farmer who has these besides those of us who worked to develop them. Mmmmm... unlessss.... I do remember a Mod/Admin, Tracy or wolfblazer, maybe?, that showed interest. But, to my knowledge she did not give them out to anyone else. And we three would NEVER have betrayed her. So, I stand by my statement that there are no Pure Eternity being sold/bred, etc. anywhere. Again, if I am wrong I would appreciate a link to such Eternity and I will retract my claims. :mrgreen:

In regard to selling fakes:
It is definitely against the strain of this thread to sell creatures that are fakes of Sub~Breeds or Generation Breeds. From comments made, I understand that you may not join Sub~Breeder Support if you do. I, of course, feel it is wrong to do so, especially if the Sub~Breeder did not give permission. For the sake of the "purity of a Sub~Breed" argument, since you, Barb, want people to feel free to experiment and change your Necklace Tots: if a Farmer breeds in different characteristics using Non~Sub breeder Tots, then are they STILL your Sub~Breed? If so, then I am so confused. If not, then they are fakes of the original breed even if the Creator (you) felt that it was okay to make changes and play with them, right? This part is not the issue of "is it okay to sell them", but rather: "is it okay to call them a Sub~Breed"; "okay to call them Necklace Tots"?

To sell the fakes... off breeds?... is a matter of opinion, except for the sake of this Support thread. People are hurt by this issue, so it simply comes down to what someone feels is right or wrong as long as they are not violating Sub~Breed or Creature Breeder rules and regulations, right? And for the record, again I'm sorry for the misunderstandings, as you had no prior knowledge of our previous conversations, but I informed Mindy of this to the best of my knowledge. I never told her that she could not sell them. She made the choice to make changes that fit with this thread, and she desires to display pure~bred Subs. She also felt badly about things she felt she had done before, "gotten in trouble for". She came to me, I had never "met" her, and asked questions that I answered, again to the best of my knowledge (I brushed up on posts and rules and regs when I came back to the game a couple of weeks ago :silly: ). I offered to help her to trace bloodlines and make the changes, offer advice, when I saw she was serious to make those changes and I knew what a monumental task she was undertaking. I also advised changes such as always crediting a Sub~Breeder when mentioning or displaying their Creations, providing links to Sub~Breeder's accounts, advising about Sub~Breed Fraud on banners, etc. As a person, a Sub~Breed Supporter, as a fellow Farmer, I am proud of her; and I have told her so :kiss: . I hope that when she gets done with all of her changes, she will be allowed to join and will gain the respect of the people on this Support thread! :mrgreen:

SparkleBug wrote:
ilovemindy, I think you are being too hard on yourself. Everyone makes mistakes. I don't foresee anyone shunning you over it :)

I agree that she was too hard on herself in her post above. To my knowledge, she made only common mistakes that many Farmers make due to the lack of knowledge, or simply not thinking about the issue much. Her desire to help us with Sub~Breed Fraud is admirable as far as I'm concerned. :w00t: She is taking those steps to be a great Sub Supporter/Owner, and I don't foresee anyone holding a grudge or shunning her either. Still, I think that others will benefit from her new knowledge and the changes she is making, and admire her all the more in the end. I know that I do! ((HUGS))

WHEW! And I was going to try to keep it short! :blink: Okay, admit it. You guys missed me and all of my rambling. Right? Right? :lol:

Respectfully yours,
~Joy

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Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:08 am
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Post Re: Sub-breeders Support
Same ol' "mom'sfarm" I remember, LOL!

I'm sorry but I do not have time to read all of that and fulfill all my other obligations in real & second life. If there is anything specific you want answered, feel free to shorten that to only the necessary text & I'll see what I can do :)

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Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:04 pm
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